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15 Reasons Why Nice Guys Finish Last All the Time

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Do you ever wonder why girls say they like nice guys but end up avoiding them? Read these 15 reasons why nice guys finish last almost all the time. By Sarah Summer

nice guys finish last

Are you a nice guy?

Do you feel like nice guys always finish last no matter what they do or how hard they try?

Now don’t hate all the girls in the world for it.

Instead, look inward and ask yourself if you’re the kind of nice guy that all girls choose to avoid.

Yes, there are different kinds of nice guys, and almost all of them aren’t really as good as they think they are.

One of the biggest problems with nice guys is how annoyed they are with the world.

Almost all nice guys truly believe the world is unfair and all girls are liars because all girls say they like nice guys but end up walking all over these nice guys all the time.

But is that really the way the game works?

[Read: The real truth behind why girls never like you]

Well, if you think you’re a nice guy who deserves the best girl in the world, here are a few things you need to ask yourself.

Do you have a nice guy in you?

All guys have a nice side to them.

But are you the one stepping aside so a girl can walk past you into the elevator, or are you the nice guy who lies on the ground and lets any girl walk all over you into the elevator because the floor’s dirty? That’s the difference that matters.

What’s makes a nice guy so lame?

Girls absolutely love a guy who’s nice. But they definitely don’t like a guy who goes overboard in trying to please them all the time, especially if they’re not in a relationship already. A regular guy may be nice to a girl, but a nice guy almost always ends up looking desperate and eager to please.

They try too hard to make a good impression, and eventually end up losing all chances of impressing a girl they like because they make it so obvious that they’re trying really hard to please. [Read: The right way to text a girl and make her want you]

Why are the other guys better than nice guys?

Contrary to a nice guy’s belief, the world isn’t split into just two kinds of men, the nice guys and the bad boys. There are great guys, sweet guys, charming guys, flirty guys, principled guys and hundreds of other kinds of guys who are admired and liked by girls.

So a girl just doesn’t have to choose between a bad boy and a nice guy. She has a lot of great options, and almost always, she picks any guy but the bad boy or the nice guy. [Read: 10 types of guys girls find creepy]

Of course, bad boys are extremely attractive. But I don’t think any girl takes a bad boy seriously or gives him a thought beyond a one night stand. The bad boy wants to have sex with the girl, the girl wants to have sex with this crazy guy, and there’s a happy ending by the next morning. But would a girl fall in love with a bad boy if she knows that he’s a bad boy even before she dates him or likes him? No way! [Read: Are attractive girls really mean to guys?]

So a bad boy is no better than a nice guy. They’re both the two extremes of a spectrum that girls don’t care about. The bad boy makes a girl feel sexy for a night. And a nice guy gives a girl a chance to have a man Friday to run her errands. Sure, she needs both these guys to have a better life. But will she fall in love with any of them intentionally? No way.

15 reasons why nice guys finish last all the time

Nice guys make great friends, but terrible lovers. Every time a girl meets a nice guy, he usually ends up falling straight into her friend zone. It’s not her fault really, because he behaves like such a good friend that she has no choice but to look at him as a friend. [Read: How to avoid her friend zone and make her desire you]

After all, a guy who likes a girl will try to flirt with her or tease her, not just ask her if it’s okay to carry her grocery bags or wash her car for her.

If you’re a nice guy and are wondering why nice guys finish last, here are 15 reasons to help you understand yourself better.

So are you the kind of nice guy that girls would avoid dating? Find out here.

#1 Self respect. Nice guys don’t respect themselves. They don’t mind making fun of themselves or putting themselves down all the time, and they don’t care about getting pushed around by other guys.

#2 Too agreeable. Nice guys are too sweet to voice their real opinions and end up frustrating themselves. At other times, they may bottle themselves up with implosive anger and suddenly burst out one day out of the blue.

#3 Too needy and insecure. Nice guys start off as sweet and caring, but end up becoming too needy and insecure in a relationship because they’re always threatened by every other guy who talks to their girlfriend. [Read: A girl's view - Are insecure men ever worth dating?]

#4 They’re boring. The nice guys are never very fun because they don’t like crossing the line into the naughty side no matter what. This quality makes them great friends who can provide good and stable advice about life but bad boyfriends who are too predictable and boring.

#5 A nice guy isn’t an alpha male. A great girl always wants to date a guy who can be in control of his life and gain the respect of his friends. If your friends don’t respect you or listen to your opinions, it’s a sure sign that you’re a nice guy who’s walked over often, even by your friends.

#6 Manipulated. Nice guys are easily manipulated because they allow themselves to get manipulated even if they realize that they’re being manipulated. This can frustrate any girl they’re dating because nice guys almost always end up getting the short end of the stick.

#7 Avoid confrontations. Nice guys can’t defend the girl they like and try to resolve any issues by trying to even the situation using polite words. They’re not assertive and never challenge anyone’s views directly. Instead, they try to get their point across through sneaky manipulation which can annoy any girl who hates feeling manipulated.

#8 Nice guys are weak. They plot revenge secretly, but can’t man up and take a stand even if they know they’re right. This makes them appear weak.

And then there’s the case of the sour grapes. A nice guy who gets dumped by a great girl always wishes and hopes that the girl dates some bad boy who treats her badly so she can know just how great a boyfriend he is. And seriously, that’s just the wrong way to go about it. If you can’t fix your problem, why do you want another guy to do it for you? [Read: How to get over a girl who doesn't like you back]

#9 They want miracles. Nice guys constantly look to the future for a better life, be it by earning more money or getting a great job, but do nothing to change the present even though they know they need to change their behavior.

#10 Offence. No one takes a nice guy seriously because he never wants to offend anyone. He’s too accommodating and everyone treats him like a pushover.

#11 Nice guys get stressed by difficult situations. A girl would want to date a guy who’s her rock and her strength, not a scared pussy who’ll run at the first sign of danger. Nice guys aren’t protective or aggressive enough. He can’t fight for his girl, and that’s one of the basic evolutionary needs of a girl, to feel protected around her man. [Read: Why do nice guys always have hover hands?]

#12 Nice guys never lead. They always sit in the back seat of life. They may want to lead, but never make the effort or take the initiative directly. And they never really ask a girl out until it’s too late and then whine about how unfair the world is.

#13 Social strength. Nice guys are not socially strong. They’re almost always invisible in a group. No girl notices them until they make a move *as a friend* and then it’s all too late. [Read: Do girls ever like shy guys who don't make a move?]

#14 Intimidation. Nice guys are always intimidated by strong personalities. If an alpha male likes a nice guy’s girl or tries to flirt with her, the nice guy wouldn’t have the internal strength to stand up against it. Instead, he may whine or sulk about it in the corner of the room.

#15 The dreaded friend zone. Nice guys always end up entering a girl’s friend zone. They’re really nice guys who make great friends and terrible boyfriends. [Read: How to get a girl to like you again after she's lost interest in you]

But girls do want nice guys

As you can see, there are many reasons why nice guys don’t really make the cut when it comes to getting a girl’s fancy. And you have to understand this, girls don’t hate nice guys. They just don’t like the behavior of an excessively nice guy who’s nervous and unconfident.

Even a bad guy behaves like a likeable guy the first few dates until the girl falls madly in love with him just to win her over. It just shows that girls actually prefer dating guys who are likeable and nice. [Read: How to make a girl want you sexually]

The confident nice guy always wins in the end

Nice guys are more sensitive and caring. They make great boyfriends and partners for life. But the only issue with nice guys is that they’re not ideal boyfriend materials.

But as guys get older and the girls get older, lives start to get more stable and stagnated, and at times like these, the stable and predictable nice guy almost always wins over the reckless, adventurous guys. But can you really wait until you’re in your 40’s before you can start impressing women? If you’re fine with that thought, go right ahead and lead your life the way you always have been. [Read: 10 biggest dating turn offs for women]

But if you want to attract girls now, impress them and have a great time with them, learn to man up and face the world like a real man. Take responsibility for your own actions and don’t let anyone take you for granted. Voice your opinions and be taken more seriously by others, including your friends. [Read: How to be a man the way he really should be]

The perfect guy that all girls dream of is a nice guy who has a spine, the guy who’s sweet and gentle, and yet composed and confident. As long as you let a girl see that you’re nice and believe in yourself, you’ll always be chosen over every other guy in the whole world. Just learn to take a stand, and you’ll be every girl’s dream date.

[Read: 12 really easy ways to find out if a girl likes you]

If you’re a nice guy, you’re one step ahead in the dating game already. Just learn to change a few bad traits and turn that nice guy into a great guy. After all, nice guys finish last, but the nice guys with confidence don’t even need to run the race to impress the girl. They just need to say ‘hello’!


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Have your say!
  • Adam
    June 5, 2012 | Permalink |

    I’m a nice guy and I completely get all the pointers mentioned here.

    The annoying thing is that as I came acrooss each new point, it frustrated me more because I could relate so well with it. But at the same time, I feel so helpless even thinking about trying to change myself. I can’t see how I can be a whole new guy overnight.

    I have liked quite a lot of girls, and most of them are now my really good friends. I still secretly like them though and wish I could work my courage to ask them out. But even the thought of that makes me want to grab my head in frustration.

    I understand what you mean, Sarah, and I realize how much of a nice guy I am. I just wish I could be more confident and willing to take a stand. I think nice guys are nice only because they want to fele loved and appreciated by everyone. But this is a great tip. I really like what you have to say, and I just love Lovepanky, you guys really do hit the hammer right on the nail when it comes to relationships. Thank you.

  • Nikki
    June 5, 2012 | Permalink |

    I’ve always liked nice guys. And true, nice guys who are confident have always been my biggest preference over any other kind of guy.

    But the problem with nice guys, at least from what I’ve experienced, is that they always behave like a friend and never ever let a girl know that they have other intentions in mind. And one fine day, they start acting weird or avoid the girl. And then, out of the blue, he tells her he’s avoiding her because he’s in love with her and can’t see her with any other guy.

    So what’s a girl supposed to do? Fall in love instantly with a guy she’s looked at as a friend since forever?

    I guess that’s why a lot of friendships end for nice guys, and a great chance of a happy relationship gets nipped in the bud.

  • David
    June 7, 2012 | Permalink |

    “So what’s a girl supposed to do? Fall in love instantly with a guy she’s looked at as a friend since forever?”

    So you criticize him for not letting his intentions known? But when he does you criticize him for that which makes no sense. No one is saying that you have to fall in love with him right there but you can’t condemn him for being honest.

  • Megan
    June 11, 2012 | Permalink |

    @David, no one’s condemning anyone here, david. It’s just that when a girl treats a guy as a best friend, she wants him to behave like one. It’s unfortunate that feelings can be misinterpreted between the sexes, but when a guy who’s a best friend suddenly confesses his love for his friend, it’s not just a shock. It also makes the girl feel violated.

    Perhaps if the guy drops a few signs first, it would make things easier to understand. But if he doesn’t and just proposes out of the blue, any girl would be shocked and would definitely not take it well. I’m sure the earlier commenter isn’t condemning him for being honest, it’s just shocking and disturbing.

  • June
    June 12, 2012 | Permalink |

    I must admit, these reasons are pretty convincing. I’ve always disliked guys who behave like mama’s boys. They’re so sweet it makes me sick! But for the first time, I can actually see what they’re trying to be. I always assumed nice guys just social misfits who don’t know the thin line between being nice and being a pain-in-the-ass nice.

    I feel pretty sad for these kinds of nice guys, but no one’s going to show them any pity in the real world. After all, most nice guys are extremely nice only because they want to fit in and they try too hard.

    I’ve dated a nice guy once and I just couldn’t take it after a few weeks. His intentions may have been genuine, but everything about him just felt fake. One day, he just got annoyed for no particular reason and started behaving like a crazy guy, grumbling to himself and whining about how mean and ununderstanding I was. Really, if he was having such a hard time with me, why on earth did he have to behave like we were the world’s most perfect couple all the while?! He could have just been frank and talked about the issues instead of hiding them until he couldn’t hold on anymore!

  • Gerard
    June 18, 2012 | Permalink |

    Something to think about for nice guys out there.

    Personally, I think nice guys finish last because they suffer from “Hamlet Syndrome” its a book. The book is about people who think so much that they underachieve. Hamlet thought and thought and thought but did not take action. Hope this helps.

  • Hank
    June 25, 2012 | Permalink |

    @Megan You wrote: “the earlier commenter isn’t condemning him for being honest, it’s just shocking and disturbing.”

    So by your criteria considering someone or their actions to be “shocking and disturbing” isn’t at all condemning then? Well, that’s news to me! Sure an out of the blue proposal when you’ve been no more than friends is going a bit far and would definitely be in the shocking category, but nobody on here said anything about popping the question. What I think Nikki and David were actually referring to is when a “nice guy” finally professes his unrequited love for his female best friend. This doesn’t necessarily mean he wants to coerce you into marrying him then and there, nor does it even mean he wants you to immediately reciprocate the same feelings, it simply means he is being honest with you and more importantly with himself. Who knows? These could be feelings he’s felt for some time and finally mustered up the courage to share them with you, OR it could just be that over time he has grown/learnt to love you or been in love with you for some time but not realised it even though it was staring him in the face all along,

    Megan and Nikki, while I understand that such a confession from a male friend may come as a surprise, it is hardly anything to deem wrong or weird and certainly by no means a “violation”. That’s ridiculous. Don’t feel threatened or violated, just be flattered but more importantly grateful that he’s always been respectful enough to you (and the friendship) to keep his distance and honest enough to open up to you about his true feelings.

    Don’t be so ego-centric and quick to judge. If it really disturbs you that much then perhaps you should realise it’s a two-way street; what is obvious to him is subtle to you and vice versa. If you feel he led you on as a friend, then he is quite entitled to feel YOU led HIM on as a potential partner. Also, I find it very nearly impossible to believe that after spending a significant amount of quality time together as friends, women, who are renowned for their intuitiveness just as much as their multi-tasking could not have seen or at the very least sensed the vibe that your “bff” of the opposite sex was more than likely just a shy, insecure “nice guy” who could potientally fall in love with you OR already had!

    Don’t let a little miscommunication or bad-timing become a drama, and who knows, if you give it a chance it may even end up being something far greater than the friendship you already had.

  • Cook
    August 8, 2012 | Permalink |

    @ Nikki, Megan & every female in this world.

    When all of a sudden a nice guy tells you that he loves you, you find it shocking and disturbing and you say that you can’t fall in love with him instantly. But when all of a sudden a bad boy tells you how much he loves you and how badly he wants you in his bed and use you as a pleasure object, you find none of that shocking and disturbing and even fall in love with him instantly.

    Why can’t you girls actually man-up for once and admit that it is actually you who are at fault? You reject a nice guy (and even deny him sex – causing him to remain a virgin for decades) who is willing to give you everything you could ever want, and instead hand yourself over to a bad boy (who will give you nothing but pain in every way possible) and spread your legs for him even without him ordering you to do that.

    In your defense, you will say that you are programmed to choose the bad ones first, get hurt, and then finally mature so that you can realize that you made a mistake by choosing a bad boy, when instead you should have chosen a nice guy. You will simply not hold yourself responsible, but blame the whole thing on nature by saying that you have been programmed to choose the bad boy over the nice guy.

    So what you’re saying is that, you don’t have the ability to reprogram yourself, see reality, avoid getting hurt by a bad boy and choose a nice guy? Males can also give the excuse of being programmed to be a bad boy, mate with multiple partners, cheat on girls and hurt them. But it is the nice guys who had the maturity to reprogrammed themselves and turn into nice guys so that they don’t do all the garbage that bad boys do to you.

    It is after years and years of pain (when you are over 30 or 40), that you realize that apart from your “challenge” (ill-treatment), there is nothing else that bad boys have to offer and there is no future with them. And then you show up in front of the same nice guy that you rejected decades ago, and expect him to rescue you? So what are nice guys supposed to do? Just accept you?

    You – a female who rejected the nice guy and chose the bad boy instead, treated the nice guy like a loser and a bad boy like your hero, denied the nice guy the right to have sex and forced him to remain a virgin till the age of 40, gave every bad boy who was around the chance to sleep with you and use you to pleasure themselves.

    What you are doing is that, first you have had your share of fun by sleeping around with bad boys. And then when you have had enough, you decided to settle down by walking over to a nice guy and tell him that now you belonged to him (in the process you will get a good house and a good amount of money – something that your bad boy couldn’t give you but the nice guy was able to, by working hard for decades). You expect a nice guy (who was denied the chance to have fun) to accept a leftover (sl*t) like you? You expect a used material like yourself to be accepted by a person you whom treated like cr@p before?

    Nice guys were the ones who saw reality. Unfortunately girls can’t see any of that but just give excuse after excuse about why nice guys don’t appeal to them, but bad boys do.

    How about you females actually grow some balls and be honest for once? Stop giving us reasons and for once admit and accept that you are born shallow. Be open and tell everyone that you exist only for bad boys, and you only marry nice guys because the bad boys aren’t able to provide you with a house and money. Tell everyone that if your bad boy didn’t hurt you at all, was able to give you a house and money, you would always choose a bad boy and none of you would ever choose a nice guy. How about you females admit all that for once?

    To the nice guys:
    The best thing is to end up alone and die alone. It is much better than ending up with a leftover sl*t who pretends to love you, but instead married you only for a good life but secretly still sees you as a loser and desires a bad boy to be in your place (with money and gives her a good life). It is best to die and end your family line with you. Imagine if you did marry a girl and had children. Do you expect your children to have a love life that will be any less horrible than you had? Since you are a nice guy, your son will also be a nice guy and get ill-treated by everyone. If he gets married and has children, they too will be nice guys and the trend of being a loser continues. If you have a daughter, she will end up choosing a bad boy over a nice guy (since your wife used to do the same thing), or she will turn out to be shallow (since she is a female). Bad boys will use your daughter for sex and dump her. She will get hurt and marry a nice guy. If she has a daughter, then the whole trend continues from there. So it is much better to end our family line now instead of continuing it and giving them hopeless lives.

    To the clowns who will want to reply and tell me that I’m wrong and stuff:
    Don’t give me any of that garbage. I won’t read any of you comments but ignore it. I won’t reply either. My judgement about females is final.

  • Mickey
    September 13, 2012 | Permalink |

    Most women assume the worst about guys to begin with, so I’ve given up trying to date years ago. There’s no point in trying anymore when the man-hating sisterhood is hard wired to believe that guys are worthless.

  • Denisa
    October 6, 2012 | Permalink |

    Gerard: I must agree with you! :)
    Because they thinking too long and too much how to do it right, and in the end they just miss the perfect moment…

    And this also remind me about movie Pride and prejudice. Because there were two nice guys in different ways…

    Well and here is my problem. Good friend of mine is nice guy, and I think I am falling in love with him, but I don’t think I could ever tell him that I like him as a guy. Because I am not sure how would he respond. It is even possible that he would run away from me and end our good friendship and actually this scares me as hell!
    At least I wish he could see me as a woman, not just a friend. (totally in friend-zone)
    There is one more thing, he was in love with some girl and she rejected him… He was depressed and now he doesn’t know what he wants.
    Well both of us are still young, so maybe in few years…or earlier.
    Just wanna say, there are also nice girls in friend zone, totally scared and they don’t know what to do because they don’t wanna lose this special person.

  • Gil
    October 11, 2012 | Permalink |

    The article was great to read – until the conclusion of “nice guys get the gals at the end” nonsense. Instead most guys (85-90% of mandom) are sitting in the middle of the spectrum – they’re kinda nice and kinda naughty. Most guys won’t probably won’t have the “bad boy” experience but are the ones who will become good husband and fathers anyway. “Nice guys” are natural-born virgins. As the article rightly pointed out, they don’t man up and will never be attractive to women. Why on earth would a woman ever want to end up with some weakling who will never protect her or their children?

  • Armando
    October 31, 2012 | Permalink |

    I agree with a lot that I read,Except I don’t blame my Inadequate flaws on women, Not every woman in the world is a complete slut, I have not dated all the women in the world to make such a generalization, But having said that, I still feel I’m not given the chance, now my problem is I’m shy, That’s a game changer right there, I am nice, I love pleasing my woman, I don’t agree with her all the time like a puppy, Nor do I let anyone push me around, I’m not a little bitch, but I am loving, and caring, romantic, aggressive, It’s just getting past that shy moment, I’m talkative with my friends, family even girls I do know, but getting close to a girl you like, let’s say at a party for example, It’s just really hard for me to just walk up and strike up a conversation, say hello, or just compliment them, even worse when they have back up :3

    It’s true girls can be mean, even if sometimes they don’t mean to come off as mean, even truer that a lot of men are just way too sensetive, they get rejected once and they think it’s the end of the world and that all women are, lack of a better word…hussy’s, But in the end, I know who I am, I love who I am, I probably will always be shy in that one stage, and I may try to change it a little, but I won’t go out of my way to change my self completely, If I can tell a girl is shy, and I give her a chance by talking to her (Shy guy, huge move.) A woman can do the same.

    We may be quiet, We may stare and look away, but once you get us to talk, You might find out we aren’t that bad, Infact I’m sure you will enjoy a conversation with us, Unless ofcourse the guy stutters uncontrollably, then I guess he’s screwed.

  • alias
    November 14, 2012 | Permalink |

    Good something that finally helps cant believe this has been the secret all along and i never knew THANKS ALoT

    But Any way some girls (not attractive fall for nice guys nerds ) so it all depends on the type of girl you want to win over.

  • John
    December 4, 2012 | Permalink |

    I used to be a nice guy, and I fell into the friend zone quite a bit. Until I got so fed up that I didn’t even care anymore, I didn’t care about women, I didn’t care about whether I got sex or not and I didn’t care what they thought of me. I treated them as if they were nothing. And they are nothing.

    Nowadays I get lots of women.

  • Alex
    January 5, 2013 | Permalink |

    I’d Love to meet some nice guys and I really don’t friend zone.
    I’m let’s say a “bad girl” and nice guys don’t just walk up to me.

    To nice guys keep being nice gentlemen you will find your yourself a fine bitch.

  • SETORWU AGBOGBO KOJO
    January 10, 2013 | Permalink |

    I LOVE U PEOPLE , AND THANK YOU FOR CHANGING OUR LIFE AND MAKING US A GREAT GUY

  • January 11, 2013 | Permalink |

    The trouble with nice guys is that oftentimes they are too shy to ask a girl they like out. And the reason most girls go for bad boys is because that is the only kind of guy that will even bother to do so. If a girl thinks that she has to choose to be with a bad boy who doesn’t treat her right or be alone, 90% of them will settle so they don’t have to be alone, even though they really do want to be treated right (the lesser of 2 evils, ya know?). Most girls say “all guys are jerks” and “chivalry is dead” because that’s mostly what we see. So what’s a shy nice guy to do? Grow a pair and pursue her! Every girl wants a strong, brave, knight in shining armor that will wield his sword and slay the dragon, not some coward that will run away leaving her to fend for herself. There is nothing wrong with a girl for wanting that.

  • January 11, 2013 | Permalink |

    Adding to my last comment…. being “too nice” tends to come across as being “passive” which is of course the exact oposite of strong and brave. We girls want a guy that is as nice and gentle to us as a teddy bear, but will protect us with the fierceness of a grizzly bear. And unfortunately most guys tend to be one or the other but not both. The world tends to be a scary place for us girls which is why we don’t want someone passive.

  • J
    February 6, 2013 | Permalink |

    You prejudge the nice guys, without even knowing them. Most of them don’t behave like that at all. But just because he is a nice guy, you think he is that way. (That’s prejudging)
    I don’t agree in many points with the article, for example:
    #3: Mens in general can be too needy and insecure. It doesn’t only apply to nice guys, and it doesn’t apply to most of the nice guys. (Insecure != Nice Guy)
    #4: Well, it may be true that they aren’t that fun. But not because they won’t get naughty. They will get naught and sexual, but you need to be his girlfriend for that. They don’t see you as a sexual object, and they will only do it if they love you and know that you love them back.
    #6 #7: That’s contradictory. They are easily manipulated, nobody listens to them. Yet they manipulate everybody at their whim.
    #8: Specially the second part. I don’t know anyone like that. But even if he is like that, he is just a psycho, and not a nice guy.
    #9: Why would they have to change? If more often than not, they do get the good jobs and everything. That’s actually the reason why the 40 yo sluts want to be with them. (They are stable, and have good jobs and everything)
    #11: That’s just a prejudge. If he is even able to go and take all the shit of your dog because you asked it as a favor, while any other man would run away or put excuses. He will defend you when the time comes.
    #12 15: There are 3 situations that I can think of: The nice guy didn’t liked the girl when the started to be friends. And then later found out that he really loved her.
    The nice guy liked her from before, but wanted to know her better before deciding anything else.
    Or the nice guy liked her from before, and wanted her to know him better, because he thinks that no girl can like a guy they don’t even know.
    Of course, this takes months at best. And by that time, the girl already put him on the “Friend Zone”. And well, I think it IS unfair, that the girl will do it with a guy she doesn’t know. (Or know him less than a month) But won’t do it with a guy she trusts and knows well. And not only that, she will be in shock and feel violated. (Like Megan said)
    #14: Well, if she is his girlfriend, he will surely won’t let that guy do it. But if she isn’t, and the girl flirts back and accept his flirts. Why would he do it? Of course, if she doesn’t let him flirt, and he insists (the other guy), the nice guy may stop him.

    @Cook: What he saids is true. But he is generalizes, not all girls are like that. Only the sl*ts.

  • Adam
    February 28, 2013 | Permalink |

    Where to start…I used to be the nice guy and at times I am still the nice guy. I’m not gay nor am I straight in the sense, don’t if you follow…I’m not a priest nor will I be a priest. I’m not a “bad boy” but in the sense I really am the bad boy in disguise. Growing up girls always liked the criminal got knocked up by the stupid criminal and most of the fathers of their children are in jail because they were too stupid to do stuff that would get them caught. I’m the bad boy that just does not get caught and I’m not talking about stealing satellite signals. I just don’t understand it all! I want to be loved but I’m not getting it.

    I’m not the guy you can change you’ll only push me away if you try. What is it in general that girls want. I’m not that ugly on the out side but all this “not boyfriend material” has made a change of making me uncaring…over 20 years of it. I’ve had only 3 relationships which all 3 went sour! I wanted to start a life with someone, that one girl, 50 50, together but now it seems I will start a life for myself alone. I’ve decided I’m going back to school for upgrading and get into a life of politics and use my “nice guy phase” to get the votes and then to only make the country of Canada a place for single people, anti this and anti that! lol maybee I need therapy but I know that won’t work! I’ve been hurt so often I’ve come to terms that women created me to what I am now today, a loner, uncaring and somebody who has lost their soul!

  • Mickey
    March 1, 2013 | Permalink |

    What a steaming pile of crap!!!

    I think a large part of the “niceness” debate is this very important misconception: that “nice” is somehow synonymous with “boring” or “gutless”.

    The problem, as I see it, is that women claim to want a nice guy only to run off with the “players” of the world.

    For example, a woman has a typical choice between guy #1, who’s gainfully employed, educated, steady, self-supporting, but, in her mind, just a “regular” guy who doesn’t get her engines running; and guy #2, who gets her engines running…BUT…has a history of stringing women along, maybe has 2 or 3 kids from different women, and is probably the stereotypical “jerk” women claim to hate but can’t stay away from.

    How does the story end, you ask? Too many times, the woman will run off after guy #2, who likely turns out to be a womanizer, an abuser, a drug dealing thug, and so on. Then, bad boy #2 moves on to the next conquest, leaving the woman with a broken heart, a kid or two, and who knows what other baggage.

    Then, after all that, then the woman decides that she wants to give a chance to steady guy #1 after she’s already given him the gate. By then, there aren’t too many guys in steady guy #1′s position who would give the woman a chance to blow him off a second time. The woman then finds out too late that the guy she blew off as “nice” is the same guy who has his own opinions, knows how to treat a woman, and can stand up for himself when he needs to.

    Many of these stuck-up hostile women wouldn’t know a decent guy if they stepped on one…AND THEY USUALLY DO!!!

    So ladies, enjoy the sexual tension and resulting drama with your exciting, thuggish, “bad boys”, and see where it gets you. Just don’t expect any sympathy from this corner when it all comes crashing down on your head.

    I WILL be laughing at all of you.

  • Mickey
    March 1, 2013 | Permalink |

    Being friendly, respectful, considerate and having a sense of humor in dealing with the (not so) fair sex only turned out to be MASSIVE TACTICAL BLUNDERS. So, if I ever decide to test the waters again, I’ll do the following first:

    a) I’ll quit my law teaching job;
    b) I’ll develop a drinking habit;
    c) I’ll join a motorcycle gang,
    d) I’ll become an international gun runner, and, best of all…
    e) I’ll start smoking weed.

    Then, the babes will be mine for the taking!!! A lawyer one night, a doctor the next night, a waitress the next night, a CPA the next night, and the next night will be a cop and a prostitute in a threesome!!! The possibilities are endless…all because of a minor attitude adjustment to full on thuggery. HELL FREAKIN’ YEAH!!!

    So much for “niceness”, right?

  • brian s
    March 13, 2013 | Permalink |

    This is all hilarious. Girls I read some of these comments and I think theyre all on target. A lot of thr guys that wrote on here are seriously bets and need to man up themselves. Who wrote that crap about the girls taking responsibility? They do. They dont fall in love with nice guys because he is too freaking nice. He emits an aura of weakness and try hard that wants to please everybody. What kind of a male leader is that? What kind of weak children would he raise? Why the hell would a woman want that as her protector and defender? Man up and grow some balls.

    I can relate to both sides of this because I used to be a nice guy that wanted to do everything to make the girl happy. I realized what was important was doing what I wanted and if they wanted to tag along then so be it. Ive also taken all girls out of the friend zone. If they have a vagina then they cant be just your friends. There will always be sexual tension. You need to treat it as such. Girls want to he taken, not asked for.

  • Jamess
    March 17, 2013 | Permalink |

    @Cook : Did you even read the article, mate ? It specifically says that the ideal male for females is confident AND nice.
    Girls don’t like the typical “nice guys” because they allow themselves to be walked all over due to their spinelessness.
    Now, I’m pretty sure someone is going to target me because I said that nice guys are spineless but as a previous nice guy and someone who’s gained a lot of confidence to step out and make my intentions known, I could safely say that I HATED who I was back then.
    Look at Adam’s comment, he’s a nice guy with little confidence and he doesn’t like it. What is he doing about it ? He isn’t sure.
    Therefore, to anyone who hasn’t read this… do read it.

  • Mickey
    March 30, 2013 | Permalink |

    The problem, as I see it, is that women claim to want a nice guy only to run off with the “players” of the world.

    For example, a woman has a typical choice between guy #1, who’s gainfully employed, educated, steady, self-supporting, but, in her mind, just a “regular” guy who doesn’t get her engines running; and guy #2, who gets her engines running…BUT…has a history of stringing women along, maybe has 2 or 3 kids from different women, and is probably the stereotypical “jerk” women claim to hate but can’t stay away from.

    How does the story end, you ask? Too many times, the woman will run off after guy #2, who likely turns out to be a womanizer, an abuser, a drug dealing thug, and so on. Then, bad boy #2 moves on to the next conquest, leaving the woman with a broken heart, a kid or two, and who knows what other baggage.

    Then, after all that, then the woman decides that she wants to give a chance to steady guy #1 after she’s already given him the gate. By then, there aren’t too many guys in steady guy #1′s position who would give the woman a chance to blow him off a second time. The woman then finds out too late that the guy she blew off as “nice” is the same guy who has his own opinions, knows how to treat a woman, and can stand up for himself when he needs to.

    So ladies, enjoy the sexual tension and resulting drama with your exciting, thuggish, “bad boys”, and see where it gets you. Just don’t expect any sympathy from this corner when it all comes crashing down.

    Since a lifetime of being taught to treat women with courtesy and respect turned out to
    be a spectacular failure, this is what I’ll do before I try to pursue the allegedly “fair sex”:

    1) I’ll quit my law teaching job;
    2) I’ll start drinking;
    3) I’ll join a motorcycle gang;
    4) I’ll become an international gun runner, and…
    5) I’ll start smoking weed.

    Then the babes will be mine for the taking. Goodbye niceness…hello thuggery!!!

  • Mickey
    April 1, 2013 | Permalink |

    Considering that the large majority of women feel that men bring nothing to the table in a reationship, and men generally can’t do anything right, it looks like “nice” is just one more code word for male-bashing.

  • J
    April 2, 2013 | Permalink |

    Anyone else feel like this bitch was talking in circles like a retarded Disney princess? The whole article kicks nice guys in the nuts & then literally in neighboring sentences tells us nice guys make great boyfriends but their not really boyfriend material. Wtf?

  • Mickey
    April 9, 2013 | Permalink |

    How’s this for a vicious circle:

    1) Women claim to want guys with confidence.

    2) Women get their rocks off destroying guys’ confidence…then

    3) Women complain that they can’t find confident guys.

    Ironic, ain’t it???

    And, like J previously said, the author of this diatribe spends the entire piece kicking otherwise decent guys in the collective groin.

    So, can someone please tell me why I should believe that any guy has a prayer in this, the dating farce???

  • Urusigh
    April 22, 2013 | Permalink |

    Given that the women who date me and the women who don’t all agree that I’m quite possibly “too nice”, let’s see how this article does in describing me.

    #1 Self respect. “Nice guys don’t respect themselves. They don’t mind making fun of themselves or putting themselves down all the time, and they don’t care about getting pushed around by other guys.”

    BS. “Nice guys” who don’t genuinely value their altruism, self-sacrifice, kindness and generosity quickly choose to stop being “nice” because they were just faking it to be liked. The ones who keep it up despite the disrespect from strangers are the ones who like and respect themselves enough to not base their self esteem on the opinions of others. That’s pretty much the definition of self-respect. Responding to a provocation with a punch or insult is immature defensiveness, not confidently standing up for yourself. The guy who can let it roll off his back, even make fun of himself, that’s a guy with maturity and unshakable self esteem.

    #2 Too agreeable.

    Maybe some are. I’m not. Most of us are just easy going guys who care more about the company than the activity. We know how to always find the bright side and entertain ourselves. We value diversity of experience and the joy of others. We often have the empathy to feel for both sides of a disagreement and see value in the points they make. Being “agreeable” isn’t about lacking a sense of self, it’s about valuing and understanding where the other person is coming from. …and lastly, it’s sometimes about apathy. Expecting us to pick the restaurant/activity/movie/whatever isn’t doing us a favor at times when we honestly don’t care. That “I don’t care, you pick” isn’t an evasion meant to please, it’s a statement of fact.

    #3 Too needy and insecure.

    Self-fulfilling prophesy? Nice guys are told that their girl will ditch them for a “Bad boy” in a heartbeat. Girls actually do this, often repeatedly. Nice guy recognizes a trend and attempts to head it off. Yeah, I get that most of us aren’t equipped with the social skills to be successful at this, but really, asking your typical nice guy to not be threatened when an alpha-type moves in is about as realistic as asking a parent to not worry when their child starts playing with matches. So long as women insist on commitment being one-sided (she can walk out of his life at any time but he is expected to be perfectly loyal until such time as she dumps him), he’s got valid reason to worry. Too many women have this idea that if the feeling leaves, so does she and that’s somehow ok. For too many woman there’s no integrity tied to their word. At best they “be patient” for a little while, but don’t say anything or actively try to fix whatever is wrong in their eyes.

    #4 They’re boring.

    Half right. Nice guys don’t play naughty until they have permission. It’s a matter of respect. Making her uncomfortable or embarrassed purely for our own gratification does not appeal, we want mutual pleasure. The girl who admits “I want this” or “I’m interested in this” will almost always receive an enthusiastic response. Of course, this requires that a women actually admit to wanting something rather than expecting him to read her mind or just somehow do that exact thing on his own without her ever having to own up to liking it. It boggles my mind how many women will leave a man because “he’s boring in bed”, but who will have spent the entire relationship telling him he’s wonderful at it, that the position they do every time is her absolute favorite, and she orgasms (faked) every time. Play the angel and the nice guy will treat you the angel, play the bad girl and he’ll be just as happy to “punish” you. Women just need to be honest about what they want.

    #5 A nice guy isn’t an alpha male.

    Nope, he isn’t. That said, he isn’t necessarily disrespected by his friends either. There’s only one alpha in a group, but the right hand man, the expert adviser, the group conscience, these are all respected roles as well and ones that are often natural for nice guys. Choosing to be helpful is generosity of spirit from a man who has the strength and ability to spare, not a craven pretense serving a desperate need for other’s approval. The nice guy is nice because making others happy makes him happy as well. It’s an end in itself, not a means to anything else.

    #6 Manipulated. “Nice guys are easily manipulated because they allow themselves to get manipulated even if they realize that they’re being manipulated.”

    Manipulation is a tactic of the weak and insecure. Trying to help them is really just trying to avoid hurting someone who lacks the character to handle it. It’s the emotional equivalent of seeing a beggar who pretends to be lame. We know perfectly well he isn’t lame, but we feel pity for anyone drive to such desperate measures and we can easily spare a few dollars. We haven’t been manipulated, we’ve recognized a person whose need is great and shared a small measure of our own abundance in response. That’s kindness.

    #7 Avoid confrontations. “Nice guys can’t defend the girl they like and try to resolve any issues by trying to even the situation using polite words. They’re not assertive and never challenge anyone’s views directly.”

    BS. Every nice guy I know, myself included, would take on any over-insistent jock, insulting bigot, or threatening mugger in a heartbeat to protect a woman. We’re just mature enough to not be driven into stupidity by anger. We escalate our measures, starting with quiet reason and good manners. We employ those measures most likely to be effective, rather than just whatever might make ourselves look better. Glory seeking and prideful posturing may be impressive, but a woman is actually better protected, both physically and in matters of debate, by a quietly efficient sort of man. The fact that few recognize this is a failing on their part, not ours.

    #8 Nice guys are weak. “They plot revenge secretly, but can’t man up and take a stand even if they know they’re right. This makes them appear weak. And then there’s the case of the sour grapes…”

    Not to invoke the “No true Scotsman” fallacy, but the kind of guy that wishes ill on others is generally not the kind of man termed “nice” in the first place. The true nice guys are the ones that simply wish their ex-GF better luck elsewhere and move own with their own lives and romantic search. They quietly state what they know to be true and then accept what happens as a result, good or bad, because logic rarely sways an emotionally charged situation. They simply don’t bother arguing with someone who won’t be convinced. That isn’t weakness, it’s pragmatism.

    #9 They want miracles.

    I’m curious how this is supposed to mesh with the admission later that nice guys typically end up financially well of and secure by their middle years. We are often forward thinking, but in my experience it is rare to find a nice guy who isn’t actively working toward that better future. The fact that many women start shallow and only grow more mature with age doesn’t require change on our part, it simply requires the patience to continually search for the few who are sufficiently mature to appreciate them. Finding someone who appreciates the same values you do is pretty much always the name of the game in dating, isn’t it?

    #10 Offence. “No one takes a nice guy seriously because he never wants to offend anyone.”

    Their failure if they underestimate him. There’s no point to being offensive. It either shows that you lack the perception to know what will be offensive or the empathy to care if you offend others. I admit I often fail the “nice guy” description on this one because I’m terribly blunt when manners and logic are disregarded, but I feel rather bad about it afterwards. Tactfulness and good manners are something my Mother taught me, a situation I find I have in common with the majority of nice guys. Perhaps a potential GF doesn’t want to be treated the way our Mother’s taught us to treat women, but if so she’s going to need to be upfront with how she does want to be treated.

    #11 Nice guys get stressed by difficult situations.

    No, nice guys typically aren’t aggressive. Aggression by itself accomplishes nothing. They are frequently protective though and even when completely overmatched will often try to at least take the blows (verbal or physical) for a woman. They don’t run (except if help is necessary). Being nice isn’t associated with high levels of testosterone, so we tend to be on the less muscular side. Picking fights we can’t win doesn’t protect anyone. Some of us, like myself, us martial arts or other methods to overcome this size disadvantage, but we still are rarely interested in hurting someone if other methods will suffice. I suppose that’s a turn off for women who want to see pain visited on others, but why would we be interested in such women?

    #12 Nice guys never lead.

    It’s generally not important to us. The one most able to do so should lead if the results are important, whoever really wants to might as well if the results are mostly irrelevant. Like anything else we might do for other people, leadership is a skill and it takes training and/or practice to improve. That means that we only step up if the matter is important and nobody else involved can do it better. Given how rare that circumstance is, we get little practice leading and the cycle is self-reinforcing. It’s flat out counterproductive to fight for any position occupied by someone more skilled at it. Why care? Our support, knowledge, ability, and hard work is still valuable and even vital to the success of the group. Nice guys are helpful guys and that helpful lifestyle gives us a considerable experience and a wide range of capabilities that more self-focused individuals often lack. If you want to see a nice guy lead, tell him what you want and then put him in charge of accomplishing it. We can rise to the occasion.

    #13 Social strength.

    Finally a reasonably true statement. We’re invisible wallflowers. Why? Well, kind people of either gender tend to be introverts. Being heavily social is a challenge, a trial, even an exhausting burden in many contexts, not some kind of joy to be pursued. Also, a great many people are simply ungrateful and do not respect or return kindness. This isn’t a deficiency in us, it’s a lack of character on their part. I’m not a nice guy because I expect gratitude or respect for it, I’m nice because I genuinely consider it the right thing to do. It is very important to me that I be the kind of man who does the right thing, whether I’ll be rewarded for it or not.

    #14 Intimidation.

    See #3

    #15 The dreaded friend zone.

    Women often insist that a boyfriend/husband should be her best friend. Women admit that a nice guy is the best kind of friend. Clearly women are either misunderstanding themselves or lying on one of these points, because otherwise the friendzone would be a stepping stone to a more serious relationship, not a guarantee to the contrary. I occasionally read romance novels, watch “chick flicks”, and even delve into women’s literotica. The men in these things are not nice men, not even “nice men with confidence”, they are emotionally cold for the majority of the story (and dangerously violent, lustful, or both when not), authoritarian, disrespectful, manipulative and tormented alpha jerks who treat the women in their stories not as equals to be respected, but as possessions to be claimed and used as they see fit. The distinction between the much desired state of “being ravished” and simple rape is rather lost on me since the woman doesn’t give permission (and often actively protests his actions at first). Not to be insensitive to those who suffer sexual assault in reality, but in terms of female sexual fantasies the only difference between the two seems to be that she enjoyed it.

    I understand that women want to feel desired, to escape taking any responsibility for actions potentially embarrassing to their reputations (like admit they want sex too or have any kinks in the bedroom), and to have a partner who never has to sacrifice himself for her because their desires are somehow always in perfect sync. The problem is that such a man does not exist. Men are not women and our desires will never match perfectly. A woman who places full responsibility on the man is not a partner but a pet. …and most women are so used to being desired by men that they can’t tell the difference between a man who values her as a person and a jerk who values her only as another notch on his bedpost.

    Regardless, it’s pretty much hopeless. There are few enough genuine nice guys and what seems to be even less women who find anything less than an alpha attractive. so women will keep getting cheated on because they are all going for the same short list of socially adept and/or physically attractive men while ignoring the guys whose strengths are more in the fields of character, maturity, emotional control, and often intellectual prowess as well. Nice guys ultimately finish last because women keep trying to take strong, attractive men and hope they will somehow motivate them to develop the character and emotional strength the nice guy already has, instead of taking a nice guy and giving him an appearance make-over and workout regimen.

  • Gomaster223
    April 29, 2013 | Permalink |

    I’m sick and tired of this notion that nice guys finish last. It’s not true. Not by a long shot. Who the hell even came up with this notion? Also, none of these 15 reasons describe nice guys at all. Instead they describe self-centered, lazy, unmotivated, scared-of-their-own-shadow, flaky guys.

  • Katy
    May 8, 2013 | Permalink |

    My fiance is the kindest guy I have ever known. But, he has no problem with confidence, he loves himself (yes, it is completely possible to love yourself and not be conceded!), is a go getter, a wonderful leader, reasonably stubborn, will stand up for himself, and just wonderful in every way. My dad is a jack ass and makes fun of my fiance because of how nice he is, calling him a girl because he doesnt push me around, or telling him he is doing womans work when he helps me clean the dishes. This is so stupid in so many ways. Not only is it an insult to me by using the term “womans work” as a derogatory term, but an insult to him because he is basically saying a man could never do nice things or be nice in general… unless he is a woman. I love my fiance more than anything. I have been through an abusive relationship before and it was terrible. He rescued me by becoming my friend and encouraging me to end it with my asshole boyfriend at the time. I realized that if I wanted a serious, long lasting and loving relationship, why look anywhere else than this man who saved me and truely cared about my well being. I dont know why in the world women dont go after nice men. Maybe they love drama. Maybe they dont like the idea of having someone who is reliable. Maybe they like being bossed around. Well, I have seen all those things and I am so beyond happy I have my fiance now. To all the nice guys out there, dont worry. There are women who really want a man like you. And the girls that dont notice your good qualities? You dont need them then. You want someone who will appreciate who you are. My fiance had crushes on many girls in his life but none ever liked him. One girl even got in bed with him and made fun of him…. in bed. Absolutely terrible. He was depressed and lonely for years. But, we are so happy we found each other. I wish all of you nice guy luck in your life. Realize, though, what kind of girls YOU are looking for. Are you looking for the nice girls too? Or just a super hot girl that everyone wants? Find your priorities in a woman, go over them REALISTICALLY and pursue that and dont go for the other types anymore. Get to know and love yourself first before pursuing the woman of your dreams. :) Good luck guys! <3

  • Mickey
    May 8, 2013 | Permalink |

    There are too many women who believe guys are just irresponsible, video game playing, beer swilling frat boys who bring nothing to the table. So when any guy tries to prove himself different, he gets hit with the “you just don’t get it” response.

    It’s real easy to say don’t give up and keep the faith. However, that has a hollow ring once a guy gets shot down enough? times. By then, he’s too demoralized to care anymore.

  • W
    May 8, 2013 | Permalink |

    I completely understand this is just a guideline for the average ‘nice guy’ who might be full of himself thinking he is a nice guy for real, however we have been having ‘trouble’ for a couple months now and this relationship is only a little over 1 year old. The situation is we are both 25 years old Im in USA she is in HK and to me I only try to do and say nice things obviously. It’s hard to get the picture just from this situation I’m sure but I just wanted to share with you how everything apparently ended with the help of this article. Please feel free to share your opinions, help make me a better person aka some1 who can get a girl who will actually care for me as much as I care for them.

    She sent me this overnight while I was sleeping so I read it and replied to her this morning.
    ( sorry for language)

    G: http://www.lovepanky.com/men/attracting-and-dating-women/reasons-why-nice-guys-finish-last
    G: i think this explains better what i want to tell you
    G: dont be so negative all the time
    G: if i want to escape this i wouldnt go crazy
    G: i just want to fix this
    B: Tbh ur the one imho who took the lead and told me that u liked me. I dont know about this article but there is no way im going to ever be able to ‘change’ myself in 15 different ways. I feel like our conversations keep regressing every time we talk. U did draw me in with a bit of sexual tactics in the begining and once I left HK u have regretted doing everything. I know these are my issues like you and the article states and im not trying to change blame or the subject. So ill just go down the list here… 1 I respect myself for what I have, you just think I respect u more which is true, u are the only person I ever cared about and I dont want to change u at all, but even when I do ask you to change there is something wrong with it. Example moving somewhere else or getting a new pc or just letting me do what I want to do for u in general. 2 well this obviously does not apply since we disagree on almost everything imaginable. .. 3 im pretty sure I dont worry I will lose u all the time, I do feel like ur 1 step away from ending everything whenever u tell me this shit that im too f**ked up and its stressing u out badly. I am needy I want to know that u love me too, dont say u love me if u dont, but u dont say it so there is no problem there. 4 yes u have told me I have nothing to talk about, I swear I told u I dont talk much, I dont read the paper listen to the news or pay attention to facebook shit. My life is not very exciting but I still try to talk to u any way I can innitiate a conversation even if its just saying how much I care for you or just to thank you for being in my life. 5 idk im pretty sure every1 ever knew respects me I do not show weakness in public at all, just last week or w/e that group of 5 that yelled f**k you to me and I yelled back f**k you bitch.. they didnt say anything else they just took off even after I went back 6 manipulation, all I see from u is how its my fault things arent working out. If u want this to be over with already quit f**king around with me and just end it. 7 this one is not true for either of us, the thing Is I might be ‘cheesy’ as u say but u show zero emotion towards me. All I get is a <3, I know u have been through some rough shit but u really cant love me imho and u are trying ur hardest to hopefully get me to be emotionless just like u. 8 I guess I dhould read that article in this section and let u know. 9 sure who the hell dosent wish for a miracle once in a while… sure there is shit I can do I can get a job and never play wow again. Idk about this one since im not sure what u would hint at here u just want me to 'change back' to how I was but I dont feel like I changed just opened up more to u. 10 this I cannot change, I will always try to be a peacekeeper for the rest of my life. I do not condone fighting of any realness but if I had to fight I would. 11 ill need more information if this is one u are implying. I dont drop the ball especially if I never had it. 12 leading is a sticky situation here I guess. U have lead everything just about from the start to now, I tried to give u everything u asked for but when I left u didnt even want to see me off at the airport and u tell me u regret what we did. I mean I went there for u but I guess u thought I would be better than I am? 13 I know wow is my only social life, I usually dont talk in wow because I cannot multitask to save my life. But even tho they are kids I get invited into skype all the time by the boys and by old friends suckem or act randomly. 14 intimidation but not like the article states because no one is intimidating me with u irl. However u are too serious for me when it comes to pvp… I wont continue here 15 for this and the others Ill have to read the articles… especially the one about 'how to make a girl want you sexually' lol because I obviously did something wrong there too. :D
    G: you know id idnt write that passage
    G: nor i said everything is what i wanted to say
    G: its mainly just the bottom part about confident guy
    G: thank you fora big passage and a 'quit f**king around and just en dit' though
    G: you made it clear enough this is a mistake

    Everything is unedited exactly what we sent each other besides the names. The only reason I told her to quit f**king around is because she keeps telling me how unsatisfied she is with this and I have to fix it. The thing is I don’t see showing emotion for her as being broken. I honestly do not have much to talk about as most of my time is spent online and she knows everything about me that I can think of, so I try to find ways to talk to her even if its thanking her for doing something nice for me even if it’s in a game. Somehow she is claiming that by thanking her and being nice to her is treating her like she is my big sister. To be completely honest I would never talk or treat any relative in this manner, sure I would say thank you or appreciate their help but I don’t appreciate every single detail about them and love them unconditionally. I’m not rich that’s for sure but I still try to treat her above myself and she does not like that at all, so I guess this is destined to fail right there? She said I have to stop treating her like a Queen. Apparently she liked the guy she met at the beginning… I guess I changed because I opened up and let her become a part of my life by sharing it with her. She did tell me I have nothing to talk about anymore, so she must want me to talk to her about stuff but she always takes it wrong, sometimes I just thank her for little things just to talk to her and make sure she knows I’m thinking of her. It seems like she does not want me to do that. She tells me I’m soo girly/cheesy and not manly like I was in the beginning and I need to be a man, she is in my life now I guess I just showed her I’m a big softie(not sexually). I have asked her to move away with me but she won’t because she loves her father, and I’m having a really difficult time getting to HK especially since I’m about to start my second year of school. I was in the military from 19-23 and this is my second relationship first one lasted 6 days. Still a virgin too as far as intercourse goes. Well just wanted to get that out there and see what the h3ll is wrong and y girls are thinking I am changing and y they don’t consider it is themselves who changed.

    Respectfully,
    imtheimmortalgod@yahoo.com

  • Just Honesty.
    May 20, 2013 | Permalink |

    So effectively what most of you girls are saying is that you want EVERYTHING. You want a guy who’s sweet, charming and funny but not too sweet or nice and if he’s too funny then he’s immature, oh and don’t forget that he’s gotta defend you like a Spartan, otherwise he’s a pussy.
    Now to the ‘nice guys’, what you seem to want is a girl who gets wet everytime she sees you, falls in love with you instantly and NEVER looks at another guy, also she can’t get in trouble cause it might be dangerous.The verdict is that women are aiming hopelessly out of their league and these whining virgins calling themselves ‘men’ are doing the same thing. You can’t have the perfect person, we’re all flawed and you won’t be happy till you realise that.

  • Jadedmofo
    May 24, 2013 | Permalink |

    If you really want a girl , try and sleep with her if the sex is good she will stick around long enough so you can get to know her, and vice versa.always make you intentions known.the list above sounds like a depressed under confident shell of a man.Not a nice guy.The word nice is confusing and not in the correct context.Women want a individual, someone that is self reliant.This sucks for certain men because personality traits instilled form good old mom won’t allow the this type of man to flurish.this is also a geographical theory, in Miami or L.A this is all bullshit, but in Nebraska or Seattle nice guys have it better.if you live in a party town good luck finding someone.Guys just sleep with them,it’s what you really want anyway….worry about the emotional bull later….she wants it too.Once you are naked with each other the “nice guy”will shine. you’ve got what every male wants, sex.if you did it right she probably already loves you.

  • Peter
    May 25, 2013 | Permalink |

    To the author.

    You got it confused. Being a “nice guy” is ALWAYS a bad thing and ALWAYS nice guys finish last.
    You are talking about the “good guy” that has an advantage in dating.

    A confident “good guy” can have success with women. A “nice guy” will NEVER have success with women.

    Bottom line is, when you are with a girl think to yourself

    What would Don Draper do?
    What would James Bond do?
    What would TYLER DURDEN do?

    “Jack” didn’t do shit in his life, so he turned himself into Tyler Durden.

    Don’t be a doormat, be TYLER DURDEN

  • derrick
    June 1, 2013 | Permalink |

    I am a nice guy, I’ don’t have some ulterior motive. I’m not trying to use anyone or misrepresent myself. Stereotypes is what is killing everything. people see a few people acting one way and they assume everyone is the same. there is stereotypes about race, background, physique and everything else. People don’t take the time out to see for themselves, NOT everyone is the same.
    Who came up with this dimwitted notion that nice guys are up to something. Maybe you have met a lot of underhanded people in your life but everyone is not the same way. Society says “Give the person the benefit of the doubt’, but not nice guys. I can’t be respectful, I’ve got to be like the other 20 guys she’s met. Because GOD makes all men the same. Because I have to be a jerk, it would be a slap in the face to people who like to assume. Yes I’m a nice guy, so I have to be angry, secretly just a liar because no guy ever wants to be a friend to a woman. No guy wants to see a woman for more than what’s on the outside. Hell, all guys might as well start fights, get drunk, rob people and hurt people because we are ALL the same. Women wouldn’t want to all be judged as the same so why would you do it to guys. How does being nice and respectful equal Needy and insecure?
    I have a lot of women friends that I’ve never slept, it’s not because I’m plotting on it .It’s not because they friend zoned me, it’s because we have similar interests. I don’t feel the need to sleep with every woman I meet. I have friendships with the opposite sex that have lasted over 11 years. They are some of the sweetest, decent people I know.
    If you spoke to them, they would say “He’s respectful. He’s never gotten out of line. He is someone that will tell you the truth. He is a honest, good, kind hearted person. There is no ulterior motives. I’m not going to one day make my move. I’m not weak. I have my own opinions and ideas.
    I’ve met women who were used, lied to and mistreated, I didn’t see that as a perfect opportunity to make my move. If they needed advice I gave it to them. If they needed someone to talk to, we talked. I’ve never had trouble meeting women.
    I’ve met women who had some foul pasts, I never assumed all women were the same, I never took advantage or never tried anything because I think with the head on my shoulders. It’s called self respect…for yourself and that person.
    Stereotypes are for people too lazy to actually take the time to get to know someone. So keep assuming all nice guys have ulterior motives, you could miss out on meeting some nice people in your life.

  • Henry
    August 22, 2013 | Permalink |

    I’m with “Derrick”

    I don’t have any issue with the “friendzone” as a nice guy. I want to have women in my life that I can talk to and share my life with. I don’t want to bang all my female friends. I’m confident, funny, thoughtful, kind and loving. I protect my wife, kids and female friends. I am a rock for many crying female friends that need someone to listen. The problem that I have with my “nice” self is that these woman eventually take me for granted. I have two very different woman in my life that eventually started acting the same. My wife and my work-wife both loved my
    nice guy attributes and we made very strong connections. Once my love was there, they both took me for granted. Now I have to act like an a**hole to get their attention. I don’t get it. You have to play both sides to keep them interested? Is that just human nature? Is that what women want? As a guy, if you treat me like shit, I’m not going to want you more. I thought I knew what these women wanted but I’m not so sure anymore. Is it that nice guys always lose or is it that women never know what they want? Once they have what they wanted, they change their minds.

  • TheLonelyRoad
    September 19, 2013 | Permalink |

    @Urusigh VERY GOOD! Very good indeed. I have immense trouble forming my feelings about such topics into coherent, intelligent text such as you have done here. I may have to follow this thread for awhile and re-post your your wonderfully written response every time I see people defending the OP’s article. I’m a 25 year old single man, and have been so since highschool. Let’s just say that I have been rejected enough times that whatever charisma/self confidence that i had in HS has nearly vanished. Also, have had NO social life since HS. So sick of being labeled as a “Nice Guy” and getting to watch all my same age peers get to enjoy their youth, have fun, party whatever. I am by no means ugly, but far from stardom LOL I guess I just figured that I must be destined to be alone because despite my efforts to have some fun during my youth, maybe even have ONE relationship, I get nothing but tears for my efforts… BUT I DIGRESS! Well said Urusigh. Was as if you read my freaking mind.

  • steve b
    September 26, 2013 | Permalink |

    Read all the points, want to clarify #9. I’m nice guy or reformed nice guy who did work to get better jobs and money and that wasn’t looking for a miracle that was creating my miracle. More money brought wealth and power and attraction from women. Now do I want those same women who ignored me before? No way! Those same women who want me now are old looking and used up from their bad boy days. I’m 43 now and with my money and position can get the younger women in their 20′s. Hey to all nice guys out there, your’re not looking for a miracle by improving your education, career, and money; you creating more power for yourself. So who’s the nice guy now!!???

  • Fallout1541
    October 9, 2013 | Permalink |

    what if I dont care about what girls think? Why should i give a shit about what I am like? Why should they? So what if I am a little nice, does that truly just make me a needy loser. What if I am a guy who likes to see people happy all the f**king time. Why is it always, pick the guys who are hot, and complete idiots, and ignore the smart guys who would be really nice. Plus, this post is basically telling that no girl will ever like me, just because of who I am. Is that really fair? How can you say that I have a problem if I do not think it is fair. Life and girls are a**holes. Go ahead now. Make your point that I am the bad guy just because I say this. Should i maybe just stop being nice, and flirt and try to touch a girls ass or breasts every time I come into contact with one. HOW IS THIS FAIR?

  • Waylan Denison
    October 21, 2013 | Permalink |

    Bullshit. I am an amateur boxer(I must be a wuss) and a very nice, respectful person. I was raised that way by wonderful, loving parents, who went out of their way to instill some actual values in me. And now you say I should be alone forever, punished in love because women aren’t “wired” to like an honorable man? Wtfever, your loss. What does that say about you? Oh, I forgot, it’s the guys fault for not wanting to abuse and take advantage of you. Pathetic. This is for the guys out there, if you’re a nice one and you get treated like shit because of it? To hell with them, move on, not worth the effort. You’ll know when she is.

  • CALVIN JOHNSON
    October 31, 2013 | Permalink |

    YOU CAN STILL BE NICE AND BE YOURSELF BUT YOU CAN NOT LET A GIRL WALK OVER YOU EVER. MAN VS MAN NICE GUY GET IT AND LEARN A LONG TIME TO DEAL WITH BULLY HEAD ON WIN OR LOSE. BUT OUR MOTHER MADE NICE GUYS THINK WOMAN ARE ALWAYS RIGHT AND WE DO WHAT THEY WANT. OUR LIFE COME FIRST AND THEN WE SHARE OUR LIFE WHEN WE BUILD OUR LIFE AROUND WOMAN WE FAIL.. YOU NICE GUY OUT THERE HAVE TO LEARN ONE WORD THAT YOU HAVE TO USE 75 PERCENT OF THE TIME THE WORD IS NO.. NO I AM NOT GETTING YOU THAT. NO YOU CANTUSE MY CAR, NO I AM NOT TAKING YOU THERE. NO I AM NOT GETTING YOU THAT. WHEN WOMAN ASKING YOU THESE THINGS THEY ARE TESTING YOU. NOW ONCE YOU ARE DATING AND SHE LOVE YOU . IT GOES DOWN 50 PERCENT ON THE NO’S KEEP THEM GUESSING. if YOU FEEL IT WRONG SAY NO. YOU NICE GUYS DO NOT HAVE TO CHANGE AT ALL. WHEN YOU DO THIS YOU BECOME GOOD MAN. YOU HAVE DONE THIS TO USER FRIEND THAT ARE MALES NOW IT TIME TO DO IT TO USER WOMAN WHO ARE TESTING YOU. YOU HAVE GOOD MALE FRIEND THAT WOULD BE THERE FOR YOU NO MATTER WHAT BECAUSE YOU LEARN TO SAY NO TO THEM WHEN THEY GET OUT OF LINE.. THE SAME THING IMPLYTO WOMEN. WOMAN ARE NOT SPEICAL NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE TRY TO MAKE THEM THAT. THEY ARE HUMAN . NEVER CHANGE YOUR MIND WITH A WOMAN SHE LOOK AT YOU FOR BEING WEAK. ONCE YOU SAY NO , MEAN IT. IF YOU SAY YES AFTER YOU SAY NO SHE GOING TO THINK YOU WEAK M F YOU JUST FAIL MY TEST.
    iN A MOVIE A GIRL WAS WALKING A DOG AND A GUY WALK OVER TO TALK TO HER. TO TALK TO HER. WE HE SAID HI SHE HANDED HIM THE DOG CRAMP IN HER BAG AND ASK HIM TO TAKE CARE OF IT FOR HER. HE DID IT AND HE WILL NEVER DATE THIS GIRL HE FAIL HER TEST. HE SHOULD OF SAID (GOOD MAN) SORRY BUT NO I REALLY CAME TO TALK TO YOU. I AM GOING TO THIS CONCERT IF YOU WANT TO GO HERE IS MY NUMBER CALL ME BYE. THAT IT , TRUST ME THERE IS A 75 PERCENT CHANCE SHE GOING TO CALL IF SHE DOES NOT IT HER LOST. NICE GUY THERE IT IS NO IS THE MAGIC WORD AND DO NOT CHANGE JUST DO THE RIGHT THING..

  • Mickey
    November 1, 2013 | Permalink |

    Most women today have absolutely ZERO use for guys, and even LESS tolerance for guys; this is why this article is such crap.

    In addition, you have some women who are firm in their conviction that guys are nothing but uncouth, unkempt, belching flatulence machines who are just plain worthless.

    Then you have some women who get their rocks off destroying guys who try to approach them, and at the same time skewer other guys who don’t approach as gutless wusses.

    So really, what reasonable chance does a guy have when the supposedly “fair sex” go out of their way to be so openly hostile, vindictive, and just plain vicious?

  • Incorruptus
    November 21, 2013 | Permalink |

    Let me ask everyone something:

    Is all of this not really about the fact that we live in a time where the very concepts that we have been raised with are beginning to unravel? We, honestly, should lament human relationships being taken for some sort of game. Seriously, can we say that we would be this listlessly selective (for WHATEVER falls into our laps) if there weren’t such a massive variety of people and an emboldened societal imperative to “hit and quit.” Love is frivolity because of the fact that sex consumes time.

    The nice, good guys (and girls) are usually your shut-ins, perhaps raised by a single parent. Some are lost; lost in the past. Thinking about it, this article is a bandage for a much bigger issue. It’s hard to put that in words, but it involves why SO many feel inadequate. When lavish things get you noticed (as the rest of this planet falls to shit), it can only confuse those not so eager to lose his or her soul. Our anger, my anger are not at people, but only the persistant idea that we can perpetuate what we later lament. The bottom line is, slow down and see that your care might land you an option you never thought of…

  • Speaking The Real Truth
    November 23, 2013 | Permalink |

    Well with the kind of women that are out there nowadays, it is very obvious why many of us Good Guys will always finish last.

  • Incorruptus
    November 24, 2013 | Permalink |

    Thank you, speaking the real truth. Yeah, most if not all qualities listed exemplify nice guys, but what no one appears to try to explain is why so many folks are so fucked up in so many obvious ways that generations before never really appeared to be. Honestly, most men and women were far more integrated and, let’s say it, folks…NORMAL. And no, not the normal we think of today. No, more like that normal your grandparents were.

    BTW, do all of you realize that we are just trying to explain why these ideas are alright (when they really aren’t)? More or less, all we are doing is trying to (re)define the paradigm that only works for a few which doesn’t result in unreasonable pain.

  • Incorruptus
    November 25, 2013 | Permalink |

    @Urusigh

    God(dess), damn it…fuck, dude, you speak truth, too. I will finish reading your very articulate response to this gangrenous excuse of an “answer” to the human condition in a moment, but I had to respond to your post. Relationships and the prospect of them are not supposed to be this hard and contrived.

    And if anyone who reads these words wishes to continue to have any shred of an opinion other than the one which Urusigh, others sparcely strewn throughout this article and myself share, you are likely one of the few for whom this busted system has worked. If this is the case, you should not be posting here…you evidently have no clue the true culprits of this issue.

  • dave
    December 9, 2013 | Permalink |

    I think she answered her own question.

    “”The bad boy wants to have sex with the girl, the girl wants to have sex with this crazy guy, and there’s a happy ending by the next morning. But would a girl fall in love with a bad boy if she knows that he’s a bad boy even before she dates him or likes him? No way! ”

    “The bad boy makes a girl feel sexy for a night. And a nice guy gives a girl a chance to have a man Friday to run her errands.”

    Since a guy really wants #1 to sleep with her. I guess by her own admonition, it’s better to be a bad boy….
    After all… once a girl gives herself to you, she is vulnerable and yes, you can make her fall in love with you if you want after that. The nice guy takes forever to make her feel something, and since there is no guarantee, you might be wasting a hell of a lot of time.

  • Incorruptus
    December 10, 2013 | Permalink |

    Yes…but how many guys are, at the same time, interested in being real who make them feel vulnerable and awakens that will to be in love. To be in love, eventually, is the point. Say anything else and you’re kind of a moron. The current “sex, inc.” mentality/system, seemingly selling ever disturbingly freakier versions of sex (though this explains only SO many) has made it difficult to know what’s worth giving any time. Men and women have been given the tools and the keys to a system that promotes us accepting social oddities. These factors ruin either genders understanding of itself. (Women becoming lezzies after a string of dumbfucks.) The dichotomy of guys and the dichotomy girls don’t seem real. Fix how men and women can/must interact and you WILL fix us.

  • Jay
    December 15, 2013 | Permalink |

    I agree with the saying but not these reasons. I personally like to think of myself as the nice guy kind of person but I get rejected and/or friendzoned by alot of girls. I hate it. It makes me want to give up. It’s better to not be a completely nice guy. Be the best of both worlds to get the girl.

  • Incorruptus
    December 23, 2013 | Permalink |

    And what is the acceptable extent of the “bad boy” side? What is it? Seriously…why can’t you folks see that advice above is for a system that creates dis-integrated people. Women are cunts or whores and men are pussies or pricks; either gender extreme “off-puts” the other gender. Jesus, people…

  • susan
    January 3, 2014 | Permalink |

    I still can’t believe (ok, I totally can) that men are still mouthing the same old BS, trying to convince themselves of this whole “nice guys finish last” crap. Guys, men were whining about this 20-odd years ago. It’s the same old stuff. It hasn’t changed and it certainly hasn’t helped anyone get a date. Oh, and drop this “alpha male” crap. Alpha males are assholes. They’re the loud, controlling jerkwads who fly off the handle over some perceived “disrespect.” They’re the guys who crewcut their hair and play Call of Duty too much, then strut around like they think they’re badasses. They’re the guys who are dumb as fuck but are utterly convinced of how clever they are. Basically, an “alpha male” is just unpleasant to be around. And guys, if you run across a woman who wants an “alpha male,” run–she’s all drama and all feigned weakness, and she’ll lazily put you to work doing anything she doesn’t want to do. Now who wants that?

    Don’t waste your time TRYING to be an “alpha male” or a “nice guy” or any other label. Just try to be you. And “you” should be interesting. Have a job, and be able to talk shop without boring anyone. Have hobbies and interests–not to impress anyone, but because YOU like them. Have goals. Have motivation to achieve your goals. That’s really about it. Not every woman will like you for these traits. That’s OK–you don’t like every woman either. Someone will like you for you. Just try to find this person without posturing and acting like an asshole. Make sense?

  • Slizl
    January 4, 2014 | Permalink |

    I can go on and on about this post, but I won’t. Here is the rule: 90% nice guy, 10% asshole. That my friends is how to get and keep a woman. Do women want nice guys? Yes. Are women attracted by assholes? Yes. Open doors, be a gentleman, but when she gives you the opportunity, be an ass. Sarcasm, actually voicing your opinion and even flaking on her every now and again is just enough for you to achieve this perfect balance. You are now the nice guy who gets laid. Simple really. I have a million other rules that I live by, so if you like this, I can post more!

  • Mickey
    January 9, 2014 | Permalink |

    It doesn’t matter if a guy is “nice” or “decent.” Most women couldn’t care less.

  • Stray
    January 18, 2014 | Permalink |

    Yeah but when the asshole dumps them they always were like he’s such an asshole and cry about it. Im a nice guy and I may finish last, but I’ll get further in the long run ;)

  • ???
    January 28, 2014 | Permalink |

    @Cassie
    “The trouble with nice guys is that oftentimes they are too shy to ask a girl they like out. ”

    Excuses. The trouble with girls is that oftentimes they don’t even want to put any effort in asking a nice guy they like out. These girls would rather put more effort into blaming that guy, and somehow rationalize that it’s his fault, despite the fact that she do not even put any effort into trying to find ANY guys. Don’t pin it on shy nice guys if it YOU didn’t make any effort in approaching them.

    “And the reason most girls go for bad boys is because that is the only kind of guy that will even bother to do so.”

    More excuses. Or you could, you know, reject the the bad boy (which will obviously save you a lot of pain), and try make a decent effort to find a decent guy and ask him out? But, NO, because you’re a girl, you think it’s beneath you to ask a guy out, and that every guy should come to you. Beggars can’t be choosers. Again, it’s not a guy’s fault if you don’t put any effort into approaching him.

    “If a girl thinks that she has to choose to be with a bad boy who doesn’t treat her right or be alone, 90% of them will settle so they don’t have to be alone, even though they really do want to be treated right (the lesser of 2 evils, ya know?)”

    Being with a guy who could (very likely) beat you, dump you, cheat on you, ditch you and leave you with the children you two had together, or even possibly KILL YOU is better than being alone?! You are just making excuses at this point. Any girl who would rather be in an abusive relationship, than be alone, is a simpleton. To quote the first President: “Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company.”

    “So what’s a shy nice guy to do? Grow a pair and pursue her!”

    Um, you can’t talk. YOU just wait for guys to come to you, instead of you growing “a pair” and pursuing him. What’s worse is that, you complain about nice guys not approaching you, yet you make NO effort in approaching anyone, either. And then you say it’s better to be in an abusive relationship than to be alone, but it’s still the shy nice guy’s fault because YOU chose the easy way and opened up the gates for a bad boy to abuse YOU.

    “Every girl wants a strong, brave, knight in shining armor that will wield his sword and slay the dragon, not some coward that will run away leaving her to fend for herself. There is nothing wrong with a girl for wanting that.”

    So what’s a girl to do? GROW A PAIR AND PURSUE HIM! Again, if you can’t make the effort to approach and pursue a decent guy, then don’t blame him and complain that “all guys are jerks” and “chivalry is dead”.

    “Adding to my last comment…. being “too nice” tends to come across as being “passive” which is of course the exact oposite of strong and brave. We girls want a guy that is as nice and gentle to us as a teddy bear, but will protect us with the fierceness of a grizzly bear. And unfortunately most guys tend to be one or the other but not both. The world tends to be a scary place for us girls which is why we don’t want someone passive.”

    Excuses, excuses, excuses. Then why is it that most of the time when a woman’s precious bad boy uses her up later in her life, that she turns around and makes an effort to pursue nice guy? She, deep down, probably realizes she made a mistake dating the bad boy, BUT she (like you and other women) can bring herself to admit it. Probably because it’s easier for her to blame nice guys for being shy, yet she didn’t even want them before because she thought they were “passive.” You say you want a nice guy, but then you say you don’t him because you think he’s passive. Make. Up. Your. Mind.

    To quote Cook:
    “Nice guys were the ones who saw reality. Unfortunately girls can’t see any of that but just give excuse after excuse about why nice guys don’t appeal to them, but bad boys do.

    How about you females actually grow some balls and be honest for once? Stop giving us reasons and for once admit and accept that you are born shallow. Be open and tell everyone that you exist only for bad boys, and you only marry nice guys because the bad boys aren’t able to provide you with a house and money. Tell everyone that if your bad boy didn’t hurt you at all, was able to give you a house and money, you would always choose a bad boy and none of you would ever choose a nice guy. How about you females admit all that for once?”

  • Lysander
    January 29, 2014 | Permalink |

    @Cassie
    “The trouble with nice guys is that oftentimes they are too shy to ask a girl they like out.”

    The trouble with girls is that oftentimes they don’t even want to put any effort in asking a nice guy they like out. These girls would rather put more effort into blaming that guy, and somehow rationalize that it’s his fault, despite the fact that she did not even put any effort into trying to find ANY guys.

    “And the reason most girls go for bad boys is because that is the only kind of guy that will even bother to do so.”

    Or you could, you know, reject the bad boy (which would save you a lot of pain), and try to make a decent effort to find a decent guy and ask him out? But, NO, because you’re a girl, you think that every guy should come to you. Beggars can’t be choosers. It’s not a nice guy’s fault if you don’t put any effort into approaching him.

    “If a girl thinks that she has to choose to be with a bad boy who doesn’t treat her right or be alone, 90% of them will settle so they don’t have to be alone, even though they really do want to be treated right (the lesser of 2 evils, ya know?)”

    That’s not “the lesser of 2 evils.” …So, you are saying that being with a guy who could (very likely) shatter your heart into a thousand pieces, beat you up, dump you, cheat on you, ditch you and leave you with the children you two had together, or even possibly KILL YOU is better than being alone?! Any girl, who would rather be in an abusive relationship than be alone, is not thinking rationally. To quote the first President: “Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company.”

    “So what’s a shy nice guy to do? Grow a pair and pursue her!”

    Um, you can’t talk. Instead of growing “a pair” and pursuing him, you just wait for guys to come to you. What’s worse is that, you complain about nice guys not approaching you, yet you make NO effort in approaching anyone, either. And you also said it’s better to be in an abusive relationship than to be alone, but that too is somehow the shy nice guy’s fault…even though it was YOU who chose the easy way out and opened up the gates for a bad boy, who approached you, to abuse YOU.

    “Every girl wants a strong, brave, knight in shining armor that will wield his sword and slay the dragon, not some coward that will run away leaving her to fend for herself. There is nothing wrong with a girl for wanting that.”

    So what’s a girl to do? Grow a pair and pursue him! Again, if you can’t make the effort to approach and pursue a decent guy, then don’t blame him and complain that “all guys are jerks” and “chivalry is dead”.

    “Adding to my last comment…. being ‘too nice’ tends to come across as being ‘passive’ which is of course the exact oposite of strong and brave. We girls want a guy that is as nice and gentle to us as a teddy bear, but will protect us with the fierceness of a grizzly bear. And unfortunately most guys tend to be one or the other but not both. The world tends to be a scary place for us girls which is why we don’t want someone passive.”

    A nice guy could still be as “passive” as he was 20-30 years ago, but that same girl, who turned him down those 20-30 years ago, decides she wants him now because she can’t turn to bad boys anymore. It makes no sense. I mean, why didn’t she try to pursue him 20-30 years ago, instead pursuing bad boys, and thus suffering the almost inevitable heart shattering heartbreak that comes with dating them? She, deep down, probably realizes she made a mistake dating the bad boy, BUT she (like you and other women) can’t bring herself to admit that she was wrong. …Probably because it’s easier for her to blame nice guys for being shy, even though she didn’t even want them before because she thought they were “passive” or “too nice.”

    To quote Cook:
    “Nice guys were the ones who saw reality. Unfortunately girls can’t see any of that but just give excuse after excuse about why nice guys don’t appeal to them, but bad boys do.

    How about you females actually grow some balls and be honest for once? Stop giving us reasons and for once admit and accept that you are born shallow. Be open and tell everyone that you exist only for bad boys, and you only marry nice guys because the bad boys aren’t able to provide you with a house and money. Tell everyone that if your bad boy didn’t hurt you at all, was able to give you a house and money, you would always choose a bad boy and none of you would ever choose a nice guy. How about you females admit all that for once?”

  • philosoper_stone
    March 15, 2014 | Permalink |

    Young, attractive women don’t seem to realize that their mating choices have vast influence on the kind of person most men to choose to become. Men want to have sex with young, attractive women! NATURE FORCES THIS EXTREME DESIRE INTO EVERY NORMAL MAN! For this reason, normal men have no choice but to seek out women for sexual release! For this reason, normal men will do almost anything to the object of his extreme desire!

    In today’s civilized society, women are allowed to choose the men they will have sex with. This gives vast power to young, attractive women who possess little genuine wisdom. And what have the young women done with this power? Many have chosen to reward bad boy-jerk behavior! With that, most men have followed suit and become some kind of bad boy-jerk! Thus, women have no right to complain that men are jerks!

    Young, attractive women have dropped the ball and made a terrible mess by rewarding the wrong behavior! When they get older and start to lose their youth and beauty, they suddenly realize the value of the nice guys that they rejected all along! Suddenly, they dare to complain that it’s hard to find a nice guy! The comment quoted from Cook (above) is right on point!

    Young women flock to every kind of evil man they can find! Death row murderers, drug dealers, thieves and psychopaths have always been rewarded by young women! Kind, decent, genuine nice guys are almost always rejected! Most young women are just not fit to choose a mate! This isn’t sexist! It’s REALITY!

  • Finney
    March 27, 2014 | Permalink |

    Nice guys who are struggling with confidence aren’t able to confront others, not because they can’t but they feel uncomfortable to. The reason is because they take friendships & relationships seriously. They treasure them over other matters. Nice guys are often people-centered, therefore they fight for others & not for themselves. If these kind of guys doesn’t exist in this world, do you think problems can be solved easily or do you girls have a shoulder to cry on? These kind of guys treat girls like precious diamonds but do girls ever appreciate them? This is just my own personal opinion.

  • Omeron
    April 8, 2014 | Permalink |

    Honestly, it’s a matter of perception. If a guy believes he’s nice and thinks it’s a virtue he’ll probably choose a woman out of his league based on looks alone. The trouble is niceness in it of itself is a complementary virtue in relation to others. Nice men so to speak do have confidence, but they also tend to overshoot, so overconfidence is likely.Typically the top 20% of attractive women get 80% of the attention. This is market economics. Selectivity goes up at the top tiers. Niceness, flirtiness, and all that, these are soft skills that can be attained over time, however there are many things about ourselves we cannot control, and sometimes we are judged on those attributes as well.

  • randall harris
    May 19, 2014 | Permalink |

    This is the biggest bunch of crap that I ever read. women are too stupid and easily manipulated by an aggressive skinny degenerate. I grew up in abuse and I hated it and never went back. but women apparently love to live life in fear and pain. and because a man will not exaggerate imaginary fights he was never in, will choose to walk away instead of hitting her and not constantly instigating an argument over something petty. your idea of an alpha is warped. when you hurt someone over and over again sending out false signals and causing so much pain he learns to shut down and not feel anything positive because that causes pain.then he becomes bitter and jaded and you are the one who’s feelings get hurt. and after squeezing out a few bastard kids no man will want your used and abused fat ass. and if I were to encounter a woman like and I do I would ignore you be snappy rude call you names in other words what you would do to me with a smile on you face when you walk past a guy like hugged up with a piece of crap that can’t even hold down a job! so go ahead and screw up several thousand years of evolution and put us back in the stone age again

  • Mickey
    May 21, 2014 | Permalink |

    @Randall Harris:

    YES!!!

  • Cary Simmons
    July 1, 2014 | Permalink |

    @Randall Harris…WOW! I sure would like to see more women respond here. I was just thinking about Beyonce and Jay-Z. She obviously wanted a “bad boy” now it looks like their marriage is going down the toilet.

    I also want to add that their are a lot of “fake thugs” out there. Guys who seemingly are “bad boys” and tough, but really are not. And i know some very quiet ex marine’s, great martial artists and boxers who are still shy around women, but you would never want to mess with them.

  • Dan
    July 9, 2014 | Permalink |

    This comment may come across as harsh but it’s the kick in the arse most men need . It skips around all the BS . Niceness is a weakness in our society . Being nice will not get you anything. Being nice in work gets u a dead end wage. Being nice in a relationship gets you dumped . It’s the cold hard facts of life . Men need to be confident and somewhat selfish , respect all but fear no one . This includes no fear of speaking to women no fear of getting dumped no fear of speaking out when someone including your gf pisses you off, no fear of walking away from a relationship . Society has sold men a crock of shit saying they need to put women on a pedestal . Put yourself on the pedestal n u will get more respect. Too many single mothers n boy men and trash tv raising kids today have left the male mind warped . Left men like scared needy women . Just look how bad it is in japan now . They shag plastic dolls instead of flirting

  • Ty
    August 18, 2014 | Permalink |

    I dunno…..I’m a baby face kind of guy and I often am told I’m a loyal friend, real and down to earth. Im a nice guy. But I’ve also been told I have a bit of bad boy in me. I’d tell you why but I don’t want to go to jail again.
    I’ve done every drug you can think of and well….maybe that’s not a great way to impress but still. I don’t get bored.

    So far I think I’ve made love with 8 girls at 20. I think I’m doing well.

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